Infinite Energy, Space Travel... Would this be the greatest

Discussions in the vein that would most interest those looking for the "meat and potatoes" of Townsend Brown's scientific work.

Re: Infinite Energy, Space Travel... Would this be the great

Postby ecker2011 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 2:25 pm

I think this is what you were talking about Linda. Jess Townsend Brown Family Consortium December 2015

Area 51, a social, cultural and psychological phenomenon

It seems so astounding just to think that in the past 26, 27 years or so, Area 51 has transformed itself from an obsure R & D and testing facility at Groom Lake, Nevada, to the world’s most well-known ‘secret base’, bar none!!

In the mid to the late 1950’s, this location so remote and unknown to the world was not even officially CLASSIFIED initially, according to military aviation historian, Peter Merlin: http://roadrunnersinternationale.com/no_secret.html

It was then a CIA managed operating base.

The term Area 51 was not even officially used by the Air Force even later on (and even to this day) because it was simply a designation initially created by the Atomic Energy Commission (today’s Department of Energy) to describe various parcels in the Nevada Test Site.

Until recently, there was only one official name for the facility used by the U.S. government: “AN OPERATING BASE NEAR GROOM LAKE”. Notice that the government did not even state that the base was at Groom Lake. It only stated that it was “near” Groom Lake!!

It seems that the government did not even officially use AFFTC-DET 3 as a designation for the area. (Air Force Flight Test Center Detachment 3, a managerial umbrella of Edwards Air Force Base in southern California).

(The exception was when a Security Manual for security personnel was printed in the late 1980s. They did use the designation DET-3, alluding to the AFFTC).

It was around 1987 when rumors slowly began to circulate among some researchers that the base, among other projects such as hyper-sonic spy planes, may even have been test-flying a recovered spacecraft of extraterrestrial origin.

In 1988 Area 51 was mentioned briefly by name in a nationwide 2-hour FOX TV Special entitled: UFO COVER-UP LIVE.

Then in 1989, with the arrival of Bob Lazar, Area 51 became the ‘de-facto’ alien base story to the believers. The rest is history, as everyone knows.
(It was John Lear who first started the rumor that there was an S-4 facility by Papoose Lake, 10 miles south of Area 51 where Bob Lazar allegedly worked….this map was created by John Lear)

However, a strange rumor started in 1997 (that resulted from a misinformed article that appeared on POPULAR MECHANICS magazine) that Area 51 had closed its doors and had move to Utah. This rumor still seems to be believed by some folks.

Contrary to that unfounded rumor, Area 51 had never moved its operations elsewhere.

In fact, today it seems to be expanding. It is definitely alive and well.

And it seems to go hand in hand (probably in a working relationship) with the newly designated NEVADA NATIONAL SECURITY SITE (N2S2), the former Nevada Test Site, Area 51′s next door neighbor and a growing testing range designated for a variety of weapons testing programs (including such as anti-terrorist weapons).

Today Area 51 is a sprawling complex that almost resembles a small city with so many structures that are easily visible even with a decent set of binoculars from atop Tikaboo Peak, 26 miles away.

It is estimated that as of 2015, anywhere from 1800 to 2200 employees continue to work at the growing base in diverse, highly compartmentalized programs conducted by at least a dozen defense contractors. Yes, this is the reality.

(a conglomerate company called JT3, a joint venture of Raytheon and AECOM including its subsidiary URS, handles the personnel procurement for such complexes as Area 51) (their website is http://www.jt3.com)

However, at the same time, Area 51 has solidly (and CONVENIENTLY for the government) entrenched itself in America’s subculture that includes a segment of the population’s die-hard belief in UFOs and Aliens.

Yes, it has become a social, cultural and psychological phenomenon, far removed from reality but much needed for some folks who may feel the urge to believe in something (i.e., ‘aliens’ who are working with our government secretly in places like Area 51, will soon reveal themselves to us and help us solved all these human problems), especially in these troubling, uncertain age of global economic, social and political crises.

To the mainstream, it may seem quite amazing that there are still some folks that actually believe that somehow the base is connected with Alien Technology!!

(Of course, some may rightly say that ultimately we do not know for sure, since there is no proof to support that belief nor is there proof that such a thing is not there).



Norio Hayakawa’s CIVILIAN INTELLLIGENCE NEWS SERVICE

E-mail = noriohayakawa@gmail.com

https://noriohayakawa.wordpress.com/201 ... henomenon/
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Re: Infinite Energy, Space Travel... Would this be the great

Postby Linda Brown » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:10 pm

Thank you so much Jess.

I admire Dr. Hayakawas work so much and especially his music.

Waiting to see how his plans for that conference at Agua Dulce are progressing.... Hope Groot has his bags packed!!!!.

Linda
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Re: Infinite Energy, Space Travel... Would this be the great

Postby ecker2011 » Tue Dec 08, 2015 3:14 pm

Bags are packed Groot is ready to go!

I have been communicating off-and-on with Dr. Hayakawas on Facebook for the past five years.
I enjoy all of his postings!

Jess Townsend Brown Family Consortium December 2015
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Re: Infinite Energy, Space Travel... Would this be the great

Postby nate » Thu Dec 10, 2015 11:23 pm

Hi all, and Bob. I've been reading the responses over the last week and I feel like I should apologise for inadvertently ruffling some feathers. This was not my intention when I started posting on this thread!

Bob, I really appreciate your dedication to 'just the facts' about Townsend Brown, and I deeply share this myself. I grew up reading a wild flurry of rumours about Townsend and a main reason why I'm on this forum is trying to nail down the truth and separate it from the rumours. But part of that, to me, is also *documenting* those rumours so we can try to get a sense of how and why they first developed. *Who* told those stories? Who started them? Were they part - or potentially part - of his circle? Can we get insight into his motivations by looking at the social world who observed and were first to pick up on his life story? Why did these particular people decide to make Townsend Brown their hero, at a time when the rest of the world didn't know his name?

You seem to feel that I'm leading the forum on a wild goose chase into the land of 'woo' and moving away from Townsend Brown's personal research and the hardware he developed. That's probably true! There's a very good reason for that: I don't *have* any inside information on Townsend Brown's personal research, I never met the man, and I have never built any hardware. My set of 'facts' only includes open-source literature - scientific papers and 'underground' publications - because that's all I know.

You claim to have built actual hardware (with some admittedly frankly unbelievable properties), and that's great! But unless you're willing to share the specifics of that hardware and its effects with us, the rest of us don't have much to go on except your own words. We've had a history on this forum of posters making incorrect claims and assuming false identities. I'm not saying you are, but it's not easy for us to judge the truth of claims without supporting evidence. I'm sure you must understand that to us, you're just a name on a screen, as I am to you.

As for me, all I have is memories of a document trail going back to the 1970s and 1980s, in which secondary sources talk about - or make what appear to me to be clear scientific references - to Townsend's work. A body of work which, to many of us not among his direct associates, is VERY cryptic, seems scattered among multiple subjects, and hard to put into wider context. I'm trying to provide some of that context.

Perhaps you don't personally feel this 'secondary source' literature-trail information is useful. I strongly disagree. I think it's very valuable to document here on this forum, as any one of these links could perhaps provide a piece of the puzzle. Some of this information I've been holding onto since the 1980s - thinking, as you do, that because it wasn't core documents from Townsend himself that it was unhelpful. However it seems that many of this information, that I've been swimming in for 30 years, is new to Linda and to her research team. I think for that reason it's worth sharing here.

As you point out, though, this material should probably have a big disclaimer: 'warning, speculation trail from secondary sources and inferences made in the scientific record, NOT ACTUAL PRIMARY TOWNSEND BROWN WRITINGS BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ANY MORE LEFT'.

I agree that the 'Resolute' forum is perhaps not the best place for this thread, and that the thread title doesn't reflect the contents. If you read the first few posts you'll discover that this was a personal recounting of a document trail (read in the 1980s) triggered by a current science story about observation of gravity waves in China, and I requested that the subject be changed in the repost. I would love it if this thread could be moved to the 'Speculations' board, but I don't have the level of board access required to do this.

However, regarding 'woo', I think you'll find that if you research just Townsend's personal writings and personal connections, and limiting yourself to 'one hop' of connection, you WILL find yourself VERY quickly dealing with (in no particular order):

* classified US Navy and US Airforce military research
* the US atomic program and 'born secret' information
* microwaves and radar stealth
* the development of the scientific field of 'electrohydrodynamics'
* 'The Philadelphia Experiment'
* psychic experience (telepathy and precognition)
* UFO sightings
* George Adamski and the 1950s UFO contactee community
* Hawaiian 'Huna' religion
* the early days of Scientology
* 'ether physics' and critique of Einstein's relativity
* psychotronics and the attempt to engineer psi (the claim that an electromagnetic device can alter a human mental state IS a claim to psychotronics, no way around it)
* 'sidereal radiation' and stock market manipulation based on, literally, the phase of the moon
* Roger Babson's Gravity Research Foundation (ridiculously non-Einsteinian in its approach to gravity control)
* 'electroculture', the influence of electric fields on plants
* time travel and physical teleportation
* Atlantis and underwater artifacts from ancient civilisations
* the possibility of a global conspiracy to suppress fundamental scientific research, or to make fundamental gravity advances outside the scientific mainstream
* a private intelligence organisation run by William Stephenson potentially also involved with literal alien contact and literal time travel

Are all of us experts in all of these subjects? No. Are any or all of these subjects 'woo'? Quite possibly. They are, however, interests in which Townsend Brown or his immediate close associates appear to have been DIRECTLY engaged. To those of us NOT part of those personal contacts, and who are just trying to do history and assemble a bibliography of source material, it's hard to find a clear reason to separate one of these subjects from the other, or to avoid writing about them. Townsend Brown seems to have had his finger in all of them.

I apologise also for the scientific physics material being unclear. That's not my intention; it's simply the nature of the material. For the most part, I'm exactly quoting the writings of others (which is why I use the forum 'quote box') and I'm appending my personal feelings about certain phrases or content in the material (such as the earliest references for the word 'electrohydrodynamics') and how it may suggest connection between individuals or scientific research programs. I try to be clear to distinguish the one from the other. And I'm also working from personal memories of books written and published in the 'new energy underground' community, which many here may not have had the opportunity to read. For that reason I'm trying to reproduce as simply and as clearly as I can the essential claims made in these books, but without summarising source information to the extent that it becomes my work entirely.

I agree that 'Resolute' is not the place for this, and I will move my future writing to the 'Speculations' board. I'll also try to recap and summarise this thread for those who don't want to spend the time to study it fully. But I'm more interested right now in simply *documenting* this material, because it has a constant and annoying habit of 'being erased' and leaving new generations to discover it over afresh. This is a known problem in psi research, and it's an ongoing problem surrounding research into Townsend Brown - even the relevant 'white world' material is scattered among multiple institutions and publishing houses. His impact on the 'black world' is even more unknown to those of us not part of that world. I'm trying to document, for future researchers, what little I know or have read that seems to me to be relevant and which has not so far been mentioned in "Defying Gravity" or this forum.

I hope you'll extend me the courtesy of allowing my research and writing here to continue, even if you don't understand it immediately. If you ask me for clarification on any point, I will attempt to give the best explanation I have. If I don't know, I will say so.

Peace, kindness, and best wishes of the season to all,
Nate
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Re: Infinite Energy, Space Travel... Would this be the great

Postby MadMax » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:02 am

Nate;

“As you point out, though, this material should probably have a big disclaimer: 'warning, speculation trail from secondary sources and inferences made in the scientific record, NOT ACTUAL PRIMARY TOWNSEND BROWN WRITINGS BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ANY MORE LEFT'.”

This isn’t really an accurate statement Townsend’s notebooks have been in the public domain for decades:

The Scientific Notebooks of Thomas Townsend Brown

Volume 1

http://rexresearch.com/brown1/brown1.htm

I have referred to them several times in various threads they contain LOTS of interesting information if one takes the time to “comb through them” for many of the jewels that they contain..

“You claim to have built actual hardware (with some admittedly frankly unbelievable properties), and that's great! But unless you're willing to share the specifics of that hardware and its effects with us, the rest of us don't have much to go on except your own words. We've had a history on this forum of posters making incorrect claims and assuming false identities. I'm not saying you are, but it's not easy for us to judge the truth of claims without supporting evidence. I'm sure you must understand that to us, you're just a name on a screen, as I am to you.”

The Internet is filed with total frauds and charlatans making MANY claims about “magic devices” that operate by “secret” operating principles without ANY verification by “qualified third parties”. I just don’t buy it anymore and I am not sure it has any legitimate place in this thread either..

char·la·tan/ˈSHärlədən,ˈSHärlətn/
noun
a person falsely claiming to have a special knowledge or skill; a fraud.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlatan

A charlatan (also called swindler or mountebank) is a person practicing quackery or some similar confidence trick in order to obtain money, fame or other advantages via some form of pretense or deception.

Just my $0.02
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Re: Infinite Energy, Space Travel... Would this be the great

Postby nate » Fri Dec 11, 2015 12:44 am

MadMax wrote:
NOT ACTUAL PRIMARY TOWNSEND BROWN WRITINGS BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE ANY MORE LEFT'.


This isn’t really an accurate statement Townsend’s notebooks have been in the public domain for decades:


Correct. That's why I said 'we don't have any MORE left' because, unless I'm mistaken, no ADDITIONAL Townsend Brown documents have been revealed in the last few years, since finding the Gray Barker documents. And even those - which I would love to be able to substantiate with an ISBN number, but I can't - I read sometime in the late 1980s or early 1990s. I was delighted to see them resurface on the forum - and more than a bit surprised that they were new to Linda, as I'd assumed she already had all her Dad's documents at hand.

This is why I'm focused right now on surfacing ADDITIONAL direct references to either Townsend Brown, the names of technologies he named, or the social/research circles of the people who made those references. Because this is knowledge I've had for 30 years, which has been available in the underground press for those who had an interest in 'the Townsend Brown Mythos', but doesn't seem to have 'bubbled up' to all the people who need to know yet. And I think it's time it was highlighted and passed on. Even if it's second-hand knowledge, it might help complete the picture.

I have referred to them several times in various threads they contain LOTS of interesting information if one takes the time to “comb through them” for many of the jewels that they contain..


Townsend Brown's notebooks certainly contain information, yes.

I don't claim to *understand* this information, however. I don't, for one thing, understand AT ALL the physical principles on which the notebooks are based. I don't know if they're describing already built and tested devices or merely blue-sky speculations. All good scientists speculate before they theorize and then construct experiments; the 1950s was a time of greater speculation than usual. I have no way of knowing, personally, whether all of Townsend Brown's speculations were based on direct knowledge, or simply 'good ideas at the time' which might have since been disproven.

In science, it's not a bad thing to make a speculation and be wrong; it's much worse to be 'not even wrong'. I'm open to the idea that Townsend Brown was simply wrong about some of his speculations, and that the notebooks were never intended to be an engineering textbook.

If Townsend Brown did write a textbook, we don't appear to have access to that information yet.


The Internet is filed with total frauds and charlatans making MANY claims about “magic devices” that operate by “secret” operating principles without ANY verification by “qualified third parties”. I just don’t buy it anymore and I am not sure it has any legitimate place in this thread either..


That's true. However, I'm not sure it's helpful to assume malice before investigating all reports of the extraordinary.

Best regards, Nate
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Re: Infinite Energy, Space Travel... Would this be the great

Postby nate » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:09 am

MadMax wrote:Bob;

I disagree with a lot of this:

I”'m not a huge fan of modern physics (everything since and including Einstein, I guess). I'm sure Einstein was correct in some ways, but I can't get my head around even Special Relativity. I read Dingle's Science at the Crossroads at an early age and his very simple argument stuck with me: if the theory requires that objects X and Y,- but it's hard for me to understand how he could have been wrong. And I suspect this inconsistency of being at the root of every stray infinity cropping up from QED to String Theory. You don't just smuggle a contradiction into the core equation of theory and expect to walk away with no consequences. But modern physics does, and has for 110 years now.”


Hi Madmax. Unfortunately that first quote is mine, not Bob's, so it's me you're disagreeing with. But I'm not sure that you actually are?

It might just be a mental block of mine that I fail to understand Special Relativity and how to properly manage the contradictions. It is, though, a mental block shared by a number of writers in the anomalous physics community, including a number of distinguished scientists such as Dingle, Aspden and Essen.

My problems with Relativity really stem from my personal experience of psi effects, which seem to require either faster-than-light information transfer - or potentially some kind of 'entangledness' as Dean Radin describes it, but one less limited and statistical than Quantum Mechanics. Other than that, though, it just feels 'ugly' at a mathematical level; I don't understand the people who describe Relativity as 'beautiful'. This isn't, of course, a scientific critique of the theory. But the fact that it seems to require every particle in the universe to potentially have its own disjoint universe-sized spacetime grid when compared with every *other* particle.... so , potentially, a number of different 'spacetimes' equal to the square of the number of particles in the entire universe!!! ... seems not very William of Ockham, if you know what I mean. Not the simplest theory that could possibly work. And if there's a simpler one possible, isn't it a scientific imperative to take that, and build the more complicated one (with all the Lorentz distortion effects and the nonlinearity and the non-commutative addition of velocities) on top of the simpler one? Like, in maths, you wouldn't build integer maths on top of irrational hypercomplex numbers, so why do we try to do that with physics?

But the entire mainstream physics community is united in defense of Special Relativity as fundamental and not emergent at the moment, so that's not a research program that's going to get any funding.

I also feel that what we call the 'physical universe' must be a tiny slice of a reality that's vaster and more 'real' in many ways than our own. That there's potentially an infinite number of layers of reality 'above' us, and what we think of as empty space isn't empty but filled with light, energy and intelligence. That comes from my religious beliefs, I guess, which are also not admissible as science. But it's why I keep looking for any tiny crack in the current paradigm.

Regards, Nate
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Re: Infinite Energy, Space Travel... Would this be the great

Postby fruitbat » Fri Dec 11, 2015 1:43 am

This is a field that is big on talk and small when it comes to people who actually have a room full of junk that they regularly play with...

Many of us come with "attitude", PLUS (to all intents) the secret knowledge is protected by a guardian that can alter your perceptions of a given situation/experience/person/etc to suit its purpose! Those of you who have ever tried a psychedelic drug will be familiar with what swiftly happens when yur perceptions are altered, but for the majority of you, it will be just incomprehensible how every effort to make an effort to piece the veil ends in bickering and recriminations.

Extending respect, to those who seem least worthy of it, as any diplomat I am sure will tell you, is the very bedrock of making any sort of progress. Fortunately, here unlike in real life, no matter how obnoxious you find the drivel spouted by the poster called "Fruitbat" to be, you can take you time with your rebuttal. Often a poster will clearly be a complete jerk, utterly without redeeming qualities, for the whole year, but suddenly without warning they can reveal themselves to be a distant member your tribe, albeit with a really annoying style.

Here, our goal (mostly) is the pursuit of the truth. MY experience has been that as I learn more fact based truth, the more I realise there is yet to learn. I too tire quickly of those who claim to know things or have had experiences that they cannot share, but it is worth remembering that this is the wild frontier of human knowedge (and in some cases experience). Only pick a fight as a last resort, just as at any frontier, you never know who you might be picking on.

Politeness, and good nature will serve us all better than money and status ever could out here.

FB.
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Re: Infinite Energy, Space Travel... Would this be the great

Postby nate » Fri Dec 11, 2015 2:12 am

fruitbat wrote:Many of us come with "attitude", PLUS (to all intents) the secret knowledge is protected by a guardian that can alter your perceptions of a given situation/experience/person/etc to suit its purpose! Those of you who have ever tried a psychedelic drug will be familiar with what swiftly happens when yur perceptions are altered, but for the majority of you, it will be just incomprehensible how every effort to make an effort to piece the veil ends in bickering and recriminations.


Yep. That's that 'erasure' effect that I've seen over this material in the last 30 years of being aware of it. People just get burned out and walk away, find it too strange, find the emotions too hard to deal with. I've done it myself several times. Not just Townsend Brown, though; the 'new energy', 'free energy', and 'psi' fields are especially full of this. But also, to be honest: religion, education, politics, commerce, Internet fan-fiction, cat fancying, and all other fields of human endeavour have similar problems. It's just more especially obvious out here on the fringe.

That 'guardian' has been named 'the Trickster' in at least one study ( http://www.tricksterbook.com/ ) . It's worth being aware that sometimes, maybe we just can't make progress and to allow ourselves time and space to step away, cool down, go do whatever else makes us happy and gives us energy. We probably won't make a breakthrough until the time is right anyway.


Here, our goal (mostly) is the pursuit of the truth. MY experience has been that as I learn more fact based truth, the more I realise there is yet to learn. I too tire quickly of those who claim to know things or have had experiences that they cannot share, but it is worth remembering that this is the wild frontier of human knowedge (and in some cases experience). Only pick a fight as a last resort, just as at any frontier, you never know who you might be picking on.

Politeness, and good nature will serve us all better than money and status ever could out here.


Well said.

Regards, Nate
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Re: Infinite Energy, Space Travel... Would this be the great

Postby Linda Brown » Fri Dec 11, 2015 9:37 am

Away from home for a bit but love these comments, and especially the way that you are all being fair and polite to each other. All I could ever ask!

Linda
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