Meanwhile, back on the SS Caroline

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Re: Meanwhile, back on the SS Caroline

Postby Linda Brown » Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:49 am

He explained that the postcards stacked together had gotten warped from the dampness when Mother put them all in her raincoat... when she handed them to him to sign He noticed that they had those dips and valleys and he realized that dimensions could somehow be connected....straight through.... don't ask me how.... but he saw it clearly. That the cards represented different dimensions.... I still have the one that Mother sent to her parents... it was a photo of Will Rogers and it still has an odd swale to it... I don't know where the other postcards were sent but there must have been quite a few of them. Moms parents saved it for her and she saved it for me.....One way, besides the other importance of it all... because it is proof that they were on the road bound for California on a particular date..... Information that has been disputed by others for reasons of their own/
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Re: Meanwhile, back on the SS Caroline

Postby nate » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:20 am

Linda Brown wrote:He explained that the postcards stacked together had gotten warped from the dampness when Mother put them all in her raincoat... when she handed them to him to sign He noticed that they had those dips and valleys and he realized that dimensions could somehow be connected....straight through.... don't ask me how.... but he saw it clearly. That the cards represented different dimensions....


Interesting! I'd heard the 'dimensions are like a stack of cards' analogy long ago, I'm not sure where I first heard it (but probably a popular science or sci-fi source after the 1960s). But the idea of 'matching wiggles' makes me think of modern fashionable ideas of the multiverse and particularly the 'bulk vs brane' (bulk would be the whole stack of cards, brane one of the cards) theory of gravity. Odd.

I wonder why Townsend Brown was thinking about parallel dimensions in 1942? He couldn't have been inspired by the 'many worlds' interpretation of quantum mechanics because that wasn't even mentioned by Schroedinger until 1952, according to Wiki: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Many-worl ... rpretation

I suppose the idea of 'parallel planes of existence' (technically what we mean when we say 'other dimensions' - a dimension in geometry is a stack of planes) had been in the air in science ever since William Hamilton's quaternions implied a 'fourth dimension' to reality which might be either time or a hidden spatial dimension, in 1843. And about the same time I suspect the Spiritualists, Rosicrucians and Theosophists must have latched onto that geometrical idea to explain their odd happenings and metaphysical speculations (the other common analogy of the 1800s for spirit phenomena was 'vibrational levels'), and after Einstein revitalised the idea of higher-dimensional space in 1905, presumably from there it crossed into the furniture of science fiction.

But I wonder why a US Navy radar/magnetic engineer would be thinking about hidden aspects of reality right then, as the USA was entering a very physical war, and Flying Saucer sightings were still a few years away? Someone who believed in a Philadelphia Experiment would suggest that perhaps something odd had just occurred on the East Coast and he was looking for explanations, but I'm still not sure I believe in that.

The Oxford English Dictionary SF word-citation project puts the SF sense of 'dimension' as before 1930:
http://www.jessesword.com/sf/list/?page=3
dimension (n.) antedating 1930 Ed Earl Repp's 'The Red Dimension' an alternate reality coexisting with our own; a parallel universe

and 'parallel universe' before 1923. H G Wells, as always, was on it:
parallel universe (n.) antedating 1923 H.G Wells, Men Like Gods A universe in which physical laws or historical events are different to our own


http://www.jessesword.com/sf/view/1241
1901 J. Conrad & F. M. Ford Inheritors 9 I heard the nature of the Fourth Dimension—heard that it was an inhabited plane—invisible to our eyes, but omnipresent; heard that I had seen it when Bell Harry had reeled before my eyes.
1923 H. G. Wells Men Like Gods (1927) 22 And now he imagines himself in some sort of scientific romance and out of our world altogether. In another dimension.
1930 E. E. Repp Red Dimension in Sci. Wonder Stories Jan. 698/1 The second chapter tells how he managed to see into an alien dimension.
1931 Wonder Stories Mar. 1193/1 There was also another race on Earth which was not human but equivalent in every way to man, though utterly different from mankind in its aims, makeup and development. I could not quite make them out as they were absolutely beyond my experience. But I was told that there were many more such races in the universe, though in other dimensions.


But the SF scene, and even the quantum physicists, got those ideas from somewhere else.

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Re: Meanwhile, back on the SS Caroline

Postby Linda Brown » Tue Aug 02, 2016 5:51 pm

Remember Nate that Dads departure from the Navy happened in the fall of 1942 and Moore and others have logged the Philadelphia Experiment for the next year... so Dads experience was a year ahead anything odd happening.... I try to avoid the Philadelphia Experiment too but remember that even though Dad reported to Burbank and checked in to Vega... the FBI followed him right to their front door.... but they seemed to miss the fact that in a few months Dad was working with a strong team that included Beau Kitselman and WHO KNOWS....( and can tell us) what was really going on. Dad stayed in the Burbank area until April of 1945 when he left on that strange "mission".... and when he came home... his household had been completely changed... thanks to Mom.....whatever was happening was being kept totally under somebodys wraps.

I did like your... what happened at Vega...

Structure of Space. Handwritten by Dad... not typed. though many renditions of it have been passed around to people I thought I could trust at the time. Turns out... not so much....

But onward/

Kisses,

Linda....
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Re: Meanwhile, back on the SS Caroline

Postby nate » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:54 am

In Townsend's notebook 1, p120, he writes:

http://rexresearch.com/brown1/brown1.htm
Winston-Salem, NC; Jan. 19, 1958

In the Vega Aircraft notebook, beginning Dec. 1, 1942 and ending sometime after May 2, 1944, and specifically described on Feb 4, 1943, a cylindrical system employing a shaped dielectric is described...


The device described appears to be something like a gravitator/gravitor. A can with dielectrics in it, which apparently produces a force even if sealed. Or at the very least, a force in air or water surrounding the sealed can.

What I'm wondering is: What was Townsend building at Vega from late 1942 to mid-1944 that such a device would be relevant to?

High K, high m dielectric material, either as a fluid filling all of the inside of the can or as a solid encapsulating material will, it appears, increase the force.


suggests that experiments were done, at Vega, in that period, that proved this. Or was it just as he says earlier:
All of my life, it seems, I have jotted down notes on paper napkins and the like, which have ultimately been lost or destroyed. In many cases, these original notes and the dates of conception have turned out to be important and the loss of the record has been a serious handicap.


and these were side notes while he worked on something else entirely? If so, were these notes made at Vega describing, from memory, earlier electric-ship experiments?

Scratching my head to think what could have been relevant to the war effort that would allow exploration of a fairly small thrust effect, that didn't make its way into any built hardware of the era that left any kind of footprint. Signals and radar would make sense, but how would producing a force help there? Or was the observed force just a side effect?

Regards, Nate
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Re: the post card epiiphany.

Postby re-rose rose » Wed Aug 03, 2016 4:02 pm

I have spent some brief time perusing the SoS II, looking for names, dates, etc. The antenna theory in it was way over my head. But the diagram at the top of this page (https://www.hep.wisc.edu/~prepost/ELF.pdf) also reminds me of wavey cards.

I would love to think that the epiphany related to some wonderfully arcane discovery, but given the pressing concerns of the day, I am leaning toward it being something similar, related to an advancement in communications theory.

I also came across this very busy diagram of the magnetosphere, as we understand it today. Knowledge has certainly progressed a long way from the days when Terrestrial Magnetism was advanced science!

Image

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Re: Meanwhile, back on the SS Caroline

Postby nate » Wed Aug 03, 2016 8:07 pm

Hi Rose. The US Navy ELF projects have always fascinated me, for two reasons: the very long testing period before deployment (20 years from 1969 when the idea was raised, to 1989 when the final ELF went operational) - and that the system only ran for 15 years, being shut down in 2004 as 'obsolete'.

Presumably something better replaced it. But what? Ye cannae change the laws of physics, or can ye?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Project_Sanguine

The project was controversial from the start and was attacked by politicians, antiwar and environmental groups concerned about the effects of high ground currents and electromagnetic fields on the environment.[2][3][6][7] The nuclear survivability of the system was made doubtful by Soviet development of MIRV ballistic missiles.[3] After an attempt to resite the project in the Llano Uplift of Texas[8] was also stopped by public opposition,[3] the Navy abandoned Sanguine and proposed a series of increasingly modest variants: Project Seafarer (1975), Austere ELF (1978), and finally Project ELF (1981), which was constructed.[3][5] The system became operational in 1989, and was used until 2004, when it became obsolete and was shut down.


Puharich was very worried about ELF wavelengths below 60 Hz - he felt 7-8 Hz was beneficial, while 4 to 11 Hz had disturbing psychoactive effects. It's good to see the final broadcast ELF project stayed well away from those frequencies. Presumably for public health, 50-60 Hz is well tested because of our existing AC power lines, so staying above that seems sensible.

In 2004 the Navy shut down both transmitters, with the explanation that very low frequency (VLF) communication systems had improved to the point that the ELF system was unnecessary.[7]


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Re: Meanwhile, back on the SS Caroline

Postby Linda Brown » Thu Aug 04, 2016 5:22 am

Its been pointed out to me that Dads statement where his notes had previously been " lost or destroyed" might have been the very reason that he encouraged me to write in my journals and in fact bought most of them, years in advance.. knowing that I would continue to write in them.... and as a kid the fact that he consistently took me to visit and meet with people that normally would not have entered a young girls life. All that very intentional.... as if I was his little special private pocket recorder, tucked close... recording all of the time. Fully convinced that this was intentional on his part. As he stressed...." You will be the moment between the chalk and the eraser."

Of course, I have also come to understand that such little recorders have to be safeguarded and now I can understand some of the more mysterious happenings in my life and why (for example) the early love interest in my life.... and I... consistently chose separate paths... without realizing it on my part I think that I was following a unique path that I was encouraged to follow somehow... without consciously realizing it.
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Re: Meanwhile, back on the SS Caroline

Postby Griffin » Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:11 pm

Hi Linda,

Kids in our day weren’t usually considered to be as cognizant of adult matters as was actually the case. My cousin Genny, who was a career spook operating under cover of the USIA, talked rather freely with my mother about spooky subjects in front of me. I remember she’d been stationed in Spain, Japan and Vietnam. I have a beautiful flying crane painting she brought back from Japan. I think my mother had been clearanced during the war, since she was a defense plant supervisor. Anyway, although Genny was obviously careful, she loved and trusted my mother and felt comfortable talking about such things with her. I don’t remember learning anything absolutely incredible, but it did provide some insight into spooksville central. What could a kid know or do about such things? That was the assumption.

As ever,

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Re: back on the SS Caroline, playing cards

Postby Griffin » Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:24 pm

Regarding the Will Rogers’ postcards, among other possibilities, it seems to me that where the warpings touch other card-dimension could be an important insight. I know that TTB, Jessup, and others in the network, so to speak, were aware of thin spots and power points that could enable a “touching” contact between dimensions.

As ever,

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Re: back on the SS Caroline, playing cards

Postby nate » Fri Aug 05, 2016 12:23 am

Griffin wrote:Regarding the Will Rogers’ postcards, among other possibilities, it seems to me that where the warpings touch other card-dimension could be an important insight. I know that TTB, Jessup, and others in the network, so to speak, were aware of thin spots and power points that could enable a “touching” contact between dimensions.


On that 'network', I note in Townsend Brown's 1955 patent notebook that he references Jessup's 'The Case For The UFO' in the very first entry of 1 October 1955, Leesburg Virginia. I understand that 'The Case' was released in 1955, though I'm not sure what month. (The Preface of The Case was written January 13, 1955: http://www.bibliotecapleyades.net/cienc ... cts03c.htm - but what was the delay between writing and publishing?) I guess there was time for the book to be published before Townsend wrote that entry. Townsend certainly seems to have been a very early follower of Jessup.

http://rexresearch.com/brown1/brown1.htm
1. A Review of the Situation regarding Gravitational Isotopes

Leesburg VA, Oct. 7, 1955

(a) An announcement has been made both in the newspapers and on the radio (within the last few days) that the contract for the launching gear of the proposed space satellite has been awarded the Glenn S. Martin Co and the contract for the rocket motor to General Electric.

This brings to mind the statement of M. K. Jessup in "The Case for the UFO" --- "If the money, thought, time and energy now being poured uselessly into the development of rocket propulsion were invested in a basic study of gravitation, it is altogether likely that we could have effective and economical space travel, at a small fraction of the ultimate cost which we are now incurring, within one decade".

As to a study of gravitation, there are two phases --- (a) the dynamic and (b) the static. In dynamic considerations, electrical energy causes a local distortion in the gravitational field which results in the generation of a ponderomotive force and motion results. In the static considerations, an electric situation exists which causes matter to be lighter (or heavier) than it normally should be.


In retrospect, that date is a very interesting little detail. How did he learn about Jessup's book? Why was he specifically interested in it, out of so many other UFO books? Pre-existing links? Townsend, Jessup, Barker and Layne/Crabb seem to have been connected somehow. Jessup's worldview on UFOs seems somewhat similar to Crabb's. Barker had Townsend's correspondence with Seabrook Hull. Add Travor James Constable to that network too, and Ivan Sanderson (though perhaps later?). Caston Burridge too, perhaps?

(And of course Shank, Kitselman, Stephenson, Spirito & Puschek et al - but they seem to fall into a slightly different category, less mystical, less speculative. Except Kitselman, who was 'accidentally founded Scientology then walked away' levels of mystical. But even so. Seems like there was a 'mystical WW2 tech insider / industrialist financier / spy' group, and then a 'mystical pulp writer / mystery hunter' group which the Adamski/Barker/Crabb/Constable/Jessup types seemed to fit into. And a few which spanned both, like the Slick brothers).

Jessup attracted Townsend's interest, just as did the Venusian Scout Ship, as he had that model in 1952, before Adamski published on it. How long did it take to produce that model? Although 'Inside the Space Ships' (1955), ghost-written by Charlotte Blodgett - and which in Townsend's patent notebook he uses as a source of ideas circa 1957-58 - was actually reworked, I believe, from a SF novel Adamski wrote in 1949, 'Pioneers of Space', ghostwritten by Lucy McGinnis. See eg http://www.skepticreport.com/sr/?p=101 Adamski did release his 'photos' in 1952, but I think in December? It's possible of course that intelligence networks had access to them earlier in that year. But if they did, then there must have been something occurring - or being manufactured - earlier.

It seems more than possible that Townsend's model was the original that Adamski photographed, and Adamski was the 'deniable cover' for the release of that information. In that case then, where did Townsend get that shape from? He seemed to believe strongly that it represented something real.

The 'philosophical signature' of Layne/Crabb's Borderlands matches the 1970s 'psychotronics scene' who promoted Townsend Brown's ideas both to the military (primarily Navy/CIA) and to the 'psychedelic' generation. A particularly significant connection to me is a shared interest in Ruth Drown's 'radionics - something that doesn't recur in many other contexts. But there's a bit of a dropout, a quiet period, in the 1960s - which somewhat matches those 'missing years' in Townsend's notebooks. The 1960s were the heyday of the space race, which was using very conventional technology: chemical rockets.

Odd little pieces of a puzzle that still don't fit for me.

Regards, Nate
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