apologizing in advance

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Re: apologizing in advance

Postby nate » Thu Apr 21, 2016 2:22 am

Linda Brown wrote:EVERYONE talks about full disclosure with UFOs but they don't even take action on their own political field.


I think that's because people feel that UFOs are a scientific problem, not a political one, and that the rules governing politics shouldn't and don't apply to science. Politics may be about secrets and half-truths and power struggles and compromise but science should be about truth, disclosure, openness or it's not science at all.

The same people would feel that politics is a 'dirty' enterprise while science (and to a lesser extent, commerce) are 'clean'. So they instinctively don't want to get involved in something dirty; they feel by getting involved they would merely add more mud to the mudfight and make nobody cleaner. Right or wrong, that's their impression. Instead, they choose to make their contributions in other areas of society that don't seem so compromising.

I guess my feelings are maybe midway between those two extremes. I've less convinced of the 'cleanliness' of commerce and science, and more open to the idea that if good people don't get involved in politics, the worst will dominate. But... I'm still quite wary of either major political party. Though I'd note that from outside the USA, the Democrats certainly aren't a 'left' party - they're basically moderate Reaganite Republicans from the 1980s (the criticism of Bill and Hillary's 1990s policies from the Sanders camp focuses on exactly this point). Quite what today's Republicans are, I don't know. And Trump is something completely beyond that.

Trump and Sanders certainly have elements in common; they're both criticising the trade pacts that have lowered wages and living standards while allowing corporations to short-circuit national tax, labour and ecology laws. I find that surprising coming from Trump, who's been quite happy to put his brand name on outsourced goods up until now.

I hope everyone involved in US politics, at all levels, make wise decisions this election season. Whether you ask for 'eight more years of business as usual while the planet burns' or 'radical change' in either direction on the spectrum, you may well get it.

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Re: apologizing in advance

Postby Linda Brown » Thu Apr 21, 2016 3:01 am

G-Man wrote:Ah, Linda, I meant the daughter, Mrs Ivanka Kushner(?), rather than the (ex?)wife, Mrs Trump; (although Little Gee-Man did have some input in that decision, I must confess); I seem to recall that the Missus was actually called Ivana. What a difference a 'K' makes......I WAS NOT CLEAR ENOUGH MYSELF..... I WAS SPEAKING ABOUT HIS DAUGHTER....AT FIRSt. Yes, I believe she is charming...but why did she overlook registering to vote?.BUT THE OTHER QUOTE WAS DEFINITELY Ivanka...his ex wife.....

Seriously, though, his daughter comes across as quite a nice girl. If you don't think he's batshit crazy (and she clearly doesn't think he's batshit crazy) then I'd feel more confident about putting a cross next to his name. Phew. And as long as Hillary doesn't get the black briefcase, then I am happy that all is as well as can be expected. He needs to stop that tidal wave of individual and minority exceptionalism that is bringing Europe to its knees. Also, the only point to learning about Ancient Rome and Greece is understanding how they ended up in history's dustbin, in order to avoid the same fate. Europe has not grasped that but it isn't too late for the US, I think (Although the southern border is a cause for concern).

I think Donald Trump understands it well enough. In a nutshell, eschew cancer economics, keep democracy in its place and don't get too many foreign folks in to do the dirty work because they tend to reach critical mass, rise up and sack the capital.
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Re: apologizing in advance

Postby Linda Brown » Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:06 am

sorry about that... I meant Ivana...his ex wife, of course...who made the "get everything" remark.
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Re: apologizing in advance

Postby G-Man » Thu Apr 21, 2016 6:04 am

So Ivanka has not registered to vote. Tut!

What are your feelings about Donald Trump, Linda. Is he the least of the evils?

The problem with science is the ever-increasing price tag. It was much easier for science to remain "clean" and impartial when research could be funded by enthusiasts working in a shed. Nowadays the strong feedback mechanism and the spiralling costs of Big Tech conspire to restrict science research to increasingly doctrinaire avenues, which appear to be keeping us from sustaining the pace we attained during the electromagnetic revolution. We are more reliant upon Musks and Bransons to explore the fringes, perhaps?
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Re: apologizing in advance

Postby Linda Brown » Sat Apr 23, 2016 2:38 pm

nate wrote:
Linda Brown wrote:EVERYONE talks about full disclosure with UFOs but they don't even take action on their own political field.


I think that's because people feel that UFOs are a scientific problem, not a political one, and that the rules governing politics shouldn't and don't apply to science. Politics may be about secrets and half-truths and power struggles and compromise but science should be about truth, disclosure, openness or it's not science at all.
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MY RESPONSE HERE GMAN. We differ quite a bit here. I have come to look at te "ufo" problem as not a matter of science at all...at the core...but a matter of our own perceptions....and I am sorry but your attempt here somehow of science being this shining place...whereas politics is muddy ....what science SHOULD BE....WHAT POLITICS SHOULD BE.....Are two different things. The only thing I find pure and clean is the INDIVIDUAL who responds actively to the passion of his "calling"....0ften. After that....it's all downhill.
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The same people would feel that politics is a 'dirty' enterprise while science (and to a lesser extent, commerce) are 'clean'. So they instinctively don't want to get involved in something dirty; they feel by getting involved they would merely add more mud to the mudfight and make nobody cleaner. Right or wrong, that's their impression. Instead, they choose to make their contributions in other areas of society that don't seem so compromising.
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BEAU KITSELMAN SPOKE TO ALL OF THIS IN HIS "hello stupid" I smile now wondering what he....and Agnew Bahnson...and Dad himself...would think of Trump. My conclusion of that thought trend might surprise you.
. people don't involve themselves in the tough sides of politics and science because it is challenging and upsetting to follow that passion and to maintain a clear vision of the future AND STILL GET THINGS DONE. RESEARCH COSTS.. Most true scientist just want to be left out of all that confrontation....that's why the IVORY TOWERS of Universities are so appealing.....but that's only because some other administrator is slugging out the problems of funding...
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I guess my feelings are maybe midway between those two extremes. I've less convinced of the 'cleanliness' of commerce and science, and more open to the idea that if good people don't get involved in politics, the worst will dominate. But... I'm still quite wary of either major political party. Though I'd note that from outside the USA, the Democrats certainly aren't a 'left' party - they're basically moderate Reaganite Republicans from the 1980s (the criticism of Bill and Hillary's 1990s policies from the Sanders camp focuses on exactly this point). Quite what today's Republicans are, I don't know. And Trump is something completely beyond that.
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ON ALL OF THAT I AGREE ENTIRELY.
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Trump and Sanders certainly have elements in common; they're both criticising the trade pacts that have lowered wages and living standards while allowing corporations to short-circuit national tax, labour and ecology laws. I find that surprising coming from Trump, who's been quite happy to put his brand name on outsourced goods up until now.
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HE HAS BEEN DOING WHAT HE DOES BEST...PROMOTING HIS NAME.....NO APOLOGIES ABOUT IT.

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I hope everyone involved in US politics, at all levels, make wise decisions this election season. Whether you ask for 'eight more years of business as usual while the planet burns' or 'radical change' in either direction on the spectrum, you may well get it.

------------------------
And I believe you and appreciate your thoughts .
-------------------------
Regards, Nate
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Re: apologizing in advance

Postby G-Man » Sat Apr 23, 2016 8:01 pm

I think that was nate, Linda. I think it's all pretty distorted and grubby these days.

And I know there are forces active within politics and society that are actively trying to quench our resistance and our freedom to call the things we find worrying and regressive, to say it like we see it.

There seems to be a spreading mental illness based in denial and cowardice - plus the gradual subversion of the tools of authority and law which are increasingly abused in an effort to silence us. This is manifestly clear in Britain; in the Isle of Man we are still free to say "If you don't like the way we do things, there's another boat in the morning". That and a five year wait for permanent worker status, benefits and social housing which has kept the bottom feeders and sand fleas from attaching themselves to us and bleeding us white as they are doing in the mainland. You can probably guess which factions of Melting Pot Britain are most poorly represented here.

(But Jeremy Corbyn's Misery Seeking Company Party may yet use our by now largely non-existent status as "rogue tax haven" to steal our independence from us, at which point we may lose that protection.)

I am praying that Donald Trump is the evidence that the US is not yet so far down that slippery slope, despite the efforts of many (noticeably Democrats, I think) to rob the US of certain constitutional safeguards as a prelude to making you as miserable as everyone else. I might even go for refugee status, especially if Corbyn gets elected
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Re: apologizing in advance

Postby re-rose rose » Sat Apr 23, 2016 9:47 pm

I just checked off my positions on a number of different issues, and the results this year are the same as 2012, so for me, it's Jill Stein and the Green Party again.

https://www.isidewith.com/political-quiz

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Re: apologizing in advance

Postby G-Man » Sat Apr 23, 2016 10:59 pm

I just did that quiz and I side with Donald Trump on most 2016 Presidential Election issues (77%)

I'm a Big Fan of the Political Compass quiz, although I fear I might be a little nearer to Hitler and a little further from Gandhi these days ;)

For example, one of the inventions I have in mind I call "The Fist of God"

(see the Chelyabinsk Meteor, that detonation took place about 25-30km up, imagine being able to make that happen on demand and at the altitude of your choosing :D )
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Re: apologizing in advance

Postby nate » Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:18 pm

G-Man wrote:(see the Chelyabinsk Meteor, that detonation took place about 25-30km up, imagine being able to make that happen on demand and at the altitude of your choosing :D )


Perhaps that's what happened to Atlantis... or the dinosaurs. (Bonus points if you can make those the same!)

It's also a bit of a problem for space traffic control. Any rocket powerful enough to let you mine asteroids is also powerful enough to nudge them into an Earth-crossing orbit.

With that in mind, I can understand why NASA was reluctant to create a private space launch industry in the 1980s.

Regards, Nate
Last edited by nate on Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: apologizing in advance

Postby re-rose rose » Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:20 pm

What I like about that website, G-Man makes it possible to drill deeper into the issues and positions than most online polls. It always makes me THINK about what I really think.

If you decide to immigrate, we have a nice little high desert community here...though it's in a state that always votes Democratic and that might not agree with you.

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