apologizing in advance

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apologizing in advance

Postby re-rose rose » Mon Apr 18, 2016 8:58 pm

I'm sorry, I have to talk politics. Not candidate level politics, but an observation about the candidates' supporters.

As you overseas readers may have heard, it's an election year here in the States. The surprising news to emerge from the primaries and caucuses held to date is that Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders represent serious threats to the Centrist status quo. And as far as the Republican and Democratic party bigwigs and bigwallets are concerned, neither candidate is desirable.

On the other hand, many ordinary citizens find themselves quite giddy at the thought of breaking a system that has repeatedly asked only "which flavor of Vanilla do you want?"

So naturally, people are doing a lot of online yacking about these "outsider" candidates. And this yacking gives rise to a perception of the typical "follower persona" as represented by the most vocal of the evangelicals speaking for that candidate. Nowhere on the web is the dynamic of the differences between Bernie Supporters and Trump supporters better represented than by their Reddit subs.

Welcome to /r/The_Donald, the largest, best, and closest thing to an official campaign subreddit for Donald Trump 2016. Be advised this sub is for serious supporters.We also have jokes, comics, memes, and other posts. We are not politically correct. https://www.reddit.com/r/The_Donald/

This sub was all Ted Cruz jokes this morning. A couple of days ago, the call was for posters to post rude images and jokes for the purpose of offending "SJWs" (social justice warriors).

And then we have Bernie's group:
SandersForPresident is a moderated community geared toward political activism and grassroots organizing. Please read our Community Guidelines before posting or commenting. Thank you! https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/

Their posts are 99% business of this ilk: "This is what we have to do, now, today, to win this next immediate election."

Trumpeters deride these posters as "Bernie Bots." In fact, derision seems to be their main weapon. But, given that there are many months to go before the November election, I think they might want to consider mocking less and working more.

rose, now done thinking for the day.
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Re: apologizing in advance

Postby G-Man » Tue Apr 19, 2016 8:54 pm

I noticed when I was spending a lot of time on MSN's Free Speech America some years back that negative campaigning seemed to be gradually outweighing positive campaigning. That says to me that there is nothing of real substance or use to be had so a candidate is left with little choice but to make the other guy look even worse.

It worries me that US politics is locked into a false dilemma - GOP or Dumocrat - and the fatwallets that are financing this from the wings are the real power - the electorate is lurching from left to right like the crew of the Seaview but someone back there has bet each way on the contest; it's almost as if the two parties are little more than sock puppets and the real leaders are the ones who are invested in this false dualism - but are never seen.

I'm a bit of a Libertarian and an Austrian School fan so I would be tempted to go for a Libertarian candidate if I had US voting rights. Sadly, it seems that most US voters would sooner saw off their own leg than "waste" a vote on any party but the Big Two. I tried to point out the benefits of picking out a third "Joker Card" party and voting tactically (Britons use the Lib Dem party for this purpose) but few seemed to be interested.

I think perhaps Trump has a certain measure of that dangerously attractive and seductive politics, based on solid ground but way off in orbit, that we have not seen since Germany in the thirties. Is it to do with promising people what they want rather than offering them what they need?
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Re: apologizing in advance

Postby G-Man » Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:33 am

Hillary worries me quite a bit
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Re: apologizing in advance

Postby re-rose rose » Wed Apr 20, 2016 5:56 pm

G-man, I used to proclaim myself a member of the Austrian School...had a mind crush on Popper. But now I think a libertarian government would only enable more of the great slide that has resulted in the dumbing down of the masses.

If we could fix that, we could fix everything else. It might be greatest gift we could give to future humanity.

it's almost as if the two parties are little more than sock puppets and the real leaders are the ones who are invested in this false dualism - but are never seen.


I believe this, G-man. It may be one reason our election day turnouts are low... most people feel it, even if they don't think about it.

If the final candidates end up being one centrist and one extremist, which is the way it is headed now, it is going to get very interesting. Many Bernie supporters are scared by Hillary, so much so, they will vote for Trump instead. But should it turn out the other way, the Trumpeters, feeling completely and finally betrayed by their party, will happily jump ship.

It is interesting to me is that Sanders is supposed to be rude and abrubt, while Trump is reportedly (surprisingly) charming and gracious in person. As I think about my possible options come election day, I tell myself "well at least he has that going for him." But I also recognize that charm can be a powerful asset. Ronald Regan proved that.

The only bet I'd be willing to place now is that neither Cruz nor Kaisich will be president in 2017.

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Re: apologizing in advance

Postby Linda Brown » Wed Apr 20, 2016 6:34 pm

I sense that if it turns into a BROKERED situation and Trump is not presented as the GOP nominee....strange things may indeed happen.

What about the ability to simply write your choice in? if TRUMP is not presented by the GOP? What would be his other options. throwing up his hands in defeat does not feel like a Trump attribute.

..The GOP..insisting that they are all simply .Playing by their good ol boy rules....... might be the most serious mistake ever made . Look at the perception that it leaves in most people's minds.

I get the encouraging sense that people who have not declared themselves yet are just waiting to see how this Brokered" convention is going to be handled....and the one thing that the GOP doesn't want to do is to fire up the feeling of injustice in the voters. My opinion alone folks. OF ALL THE ELECTIONS IN THE PAST...THIS ONE WILL COUNT THE MOST.
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Re: apologizing in advance

Postby re-rose rose » Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:07 pm

I agree, Linda. From a historical projection (if that isn't an oxymoron), this might well become known as the year that brought about a fracturing of the two party system.

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Re: apologizing in advance

Postby Linda Brown » Wed Apr 20, 2016 8:59 pm

thing is...the system has been broken for a long time but it benefitted the various power brokers and the public was too dumbed down to understand what was happening. Times have changed.

EVERYONE talks about full disclosure with UFOs but they don't even take action on their own political field. Unless it takes place this year, with this election...I donT see much reason to expand our so called knowledge when we can't even take care in our own political system. And maybe those who are waiting to see some sort of proof of our maturity...are waiting to see what happens in November.

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Oops! I think I just Trumped!

Postby G-Man » Wed Apr 20, 2016 9:32 pm

Dammit, the sock puppeteers have really got you guys stitched up this time.

I hear what you're saying about the Libertarians. The third party is only there to allow another party to gain a useful majority after which they get to exert more influence over legislation, economic and foreign policy &c, I'm sure you've seen how it goes when Britain has a coalition. Realistically, I would vote GOP any time, simply because I believe that "socialist liberalism" as it stands today is a mental illness, the chief symptom of which is an abandonment of any effort to build a better world in favour of the fondly-held, shrilly-proclaimed and rabidly-defended delusion that we already live in one. Indeed that delusion seems to be the only thing they will defend; and that defence is prosecuted with ruthless, unscrupulous viciousness because, as self-appointed custodians of the moral good, It's Alright When They Are Doing it. Perhaps that's a bit hyperbolic. The US version of that meme is more to do with immaturity and badly-managed fear.

Let me dangle them from a Westland Wessex on a two hundred foot rope and take 'em for a ride round Cardigan Bay. I'll get them through the screaming, the crying, the begging and wheedling, the threatening and the faux reasonable phases. When they've been grinning and shouting "Five more minutes" for a while, I'll winch em in. Job done! :)

The unfortunate problem we have here is that both candidates appear to be Bat Shit Crazy. I can easily imagine Hillary screamin' and cussin' and throwing sandwiches at her aides because things ain't goin' her way. As for Unca Donald...well maybe I have him wrong. Maybe. His daughter certainly gives a good account of him

I'm an elephant because historically they make the best hardball, unflinching prosecution of a difficult job, common sense. Now I don't know which way to go. I would have a nervous breakdown as I stood impotent and frozen in the election booth.

[STOP PRESS] Ted just emailed me and asked if I could spot him $1000, sounds like his campaign is turning into a real nightmare

No. Dammit, I'm voting for Ivanka. Ach, my poor old heart should break already :)
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Re: apologizing in advance

Postby Linda Brown » Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:02 pm

I would be more impressed with Ivanka if she had registered to vote. disappointing when she is telling others how easy it is to do, and so important...yet she somehow fails to do that. if my Dad had decided to run for President...well you all pretty much know how I would have reacted!

Ivanka (edit in...sorry, I mistyped here. I meant IVANA, OF COURSE)was the lady I love to quote. paraphrasing it here but I believe it was something like....." don't get even.....get EVERYTHING!".....not sure how badly hurt the Donald got in their financial settlements...but he is still standing..so maybe he might be able to stand up to the Russianstoo...without losing his shirt. not an easy chore.

I do believe that most of us are really tired of getting the short end of the stick handed to us in these international deals. And most believe Trump when he says he will change that. AT LEAST THE PASSION FOR REAL CHANGE IS THERE.

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Re: apologizing in advance

Postby G-Man » Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:33 pm

Ah, Linda, I meant the daughter, Mrs Ivanka Kushner(?), rather than the (ex?)wife, Mrs Trump; (although Little Gee-Man did have some input in that decision, I must confess); I seem to recall that the Missus was actually called Ivana. What a difference a 'K' makes.

Seriously, though, his daughter comes across as quite a nice girl. If you don't think he's batshit crazy (and she clearly doesn't think he's batshit crazy) then I'd feel more confident about putting a cross next to his name. Phew. And as long as Hillary doesn't get the black briefcase, then I am happy that all is as well as can be expected. He needs to stop that tidal wave of individual and minority exceptionalism that is bringing Europe to its knees. Also, the only point to learning about Ancient Rome and Greece is understanding how they ended up in history's dustbin, in order to avoid the same fate. Europe has not grasped that but it isn't too late for the US, I think (Although the southern border is a cause for concern).

I think Donald Trump understands it well enough. In a nutshell, eschew cancer economics, keep democracy in its place and don't get too many foreign folks in to do the dirty work because they tend to reach critical mass, rise up and sack the capital.
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