I won't pass on this one, even though...

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Re: I won't pass on this one, even though...

Postby G-Man » Tue May 10, 2016 8:47 pm

"...and its magnetic slide system and how it displaces over 89% of the mass of the ship, how it ionizes the engine, how it glows...


The TR3B keeps popping up over and over again
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Re: I won't pass on this one, even though...

Postby nate » Wed May 11, 2016 12:52 am

G-Man wrote:The TR3B keeps popping up over and over again


I wonder what Tiers I and II were, and what systems delivery architecture / roadmap they were part of.

By which I mean, 'Tier' is not a word typically used to describe products themselves, but is the sort of bland business word very commonly used to describe phases of scheduled product development. Like 'Block' in the Apollo era.

Wikipedia is unexpectedly informative today though:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TR-3_Black_Manta

How the TR-3 designation came up in publications is unclear. It is clearly not a continuation of the R-for-Reconnaissance series, since ER-2 (NASA designation for U-2 aircraft modified for Earth science studies) stood for "Earth Resources", not "Electronic Reconnaissance". It is, therefore possible that TR-3 is merely a corruption of Tier III, a name given to a cancelled large reconnaissance unmanned aerial vehicle (UAV) flying wing designed around the time of alleged sightings of the Black Manta, circa 1988–1990. The Tier III Minus program that resulted in the unsuccessful Lockheed Martin RQ-3 DarkStar was a scaled-down derivative of the original Tier III.

Another candidate for the alleged spy plane is a design from Teledyne Ryan, patented in the United States on April 26, 1977, under number 4,019,699.[5] This aircraft of low observability, as it is called, was invented by Robert W. Wintersdorff and George R. Cota, employees at Teledyne Ryan, a firm specialized in building unmanned reconnaissance aircraft. On May 10, 1977, a design of an aircraft was patented by Teledyne Ryan under number Des. 244,265,[6] and closely resembles the earlier mentioned example. This design was made by Waldo Virgil Opfer. The first design is unmanned, the second one manned. Whether one of these designs is related to the above-mentioned TR-3A is not positively identified, but it is a coincidence that TR also stands for Teledyne Ryan. Teledyne Ryan was acquired by Northrop Grumman in 1999.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_Aeronautical
In the 1950s, Ryan was a pioneer in jet vertical flight with the X-13 Vertijet, a tail-sitting jet with a delta wing which was not used in production designs. In the early 1960s, Ryan built the XV-5 Vertifan for the U.S. Army, which used wing- and nose-mounted lift vanes for V/STOL vertical flight. It was flown, crashing after ingesting a test rescue dummy in its fans, and was not made into a production aircraft. Other Ryan V/STOL designs included the VZ-3 Vertiplane and the YO-51 Dragonfly.

In 1966/67, Ryan was awarded the contract to build the digital Doppler radar system installed aboard the Apollo Lunar Lander.

In 1968 the company was acquired by Teledyne for $128 million and a year later became a wholly owned subsidiary of that company as Teledyne Ryan. Claude Ryan retired as chairman with the Teledyne purchase.

Northrop Grumman purchased Teledyne Ryan in 1999, with the products continuing to form the core of that firm's unmanned aerial vehicle efforts.


'Magnetic slide' has me scratching my head though. It's a new buzzword for me. Very Wilbert Smith, but not especially Townsend Brown.

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Re: I won't pass on this one, even though...

Postby G-Man » Wed May 11, 2016 1:01 pm

"Magnetic slide" puzzled me a little as well, so I assumed it was a reference to the plasma gyro dingus in the machine described by Ed Fouché, the rest of the details seem to fit well with that. This is the huge black triangular object with the lights underneath, which has been photographed on a number of occasions and may be one the bogeys pursued by the Belgian Air Force.

For some reason Ed's description of the Magnetic Field Disruptor made my ears prick up, despite some of the parameters he cites appearing to be beyond the limits of materials science. What is described is a plasma-state compound gyroscope, in effect. The strange behaviour of compound gyroscopes was one of my first areas of investigation.

At any rate I am inclined to keep an open mind on the subject, as the "impossible" parameters could be the result of misunderstanding or misinformation
Last edited by G-Man on Wed May 11, 2016 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I won't pass on this one, even though...

Postby re-rose rose » Wed May 11, 2016 7:47 pm

Huffington post recently pubished an interview on the issue of a government sponsored UFO coverup, conducted with Christopher Mellon, a man in the know when it comes to classified and special access programs,

...His positions during the Clinton and Bush administrations involved high clearances; in fact, there are few people who have enjoyed such deep and wide-ranging access to compartmented programs in both the Defense Department (DoD) and the intelligence community. Chris is the recipient of numerous awards, including the National Reconnaissance Office Gold Medal and the Defense Intelligence Agency Director's Medal.

At DoD, Chris served on a small committee that provided oversight of all DoD special access programs, in order to eliminate potential waste and duplication. The oversight included visits to Area 51 and other sensitive facilities. He also spent over a decade on the Senate Intelligence Committee, involved in oversight of NRO, CIA, NSA and other intelligence organizations. He became the first Congressional official to review all of the NSA's compartmented programs.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leslie-ke ... 462831807=


His take on the Belgium Triangle sightings:
Q: Some people believe the more recent sightings in cases such as those you mentioned may simply be US government tests of experimental aircraft. Is that possible?

A: I can understand why this may seem the most plausible explanation. But I can assure you, those objects did not belong to US Department of Defense....


He is also certain that there is no UFO coverup, which seems to be contrary to the claims of DeLonge's reputed DoD/NASA insiders.

just noting the other side of the story for the record....

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Re: I won't pass on this one, even though...

Postby G-Man » Wed May 11, 2016 8:38 pm

Yes indeed.

Christopher Mellon wrote:Also, it is totally uncharacteristic of the US military to conduct experimental tests of new vehicles over populated areas where security would be compromised and innocent civilians placed in harms way. That’s completely contrary to military DNA. Alien visitation is actually easier to believe than that level of stupidity being exhibited by the brilliant people developing new aircraft technologies for DoD"


A mystery wrapped up in an enigma...if we exclude the possibility of mass hallucination then it is either

- some species of alien visitation,
- the exercise of plausible deniability, possibly after a stealth system failure
- the result of a blacker-than-black budget US research, possibly after a stealth system failure
- someone else on Earth has the technology and it is possibly experiencing a stealth system failure

In the latter case it appears reasonable enough for any nation developing new technology not to deploy it in areas where human life or project security was at risk. But...ultimately these things are intended to be used and once the tech is considered reliable enough to stay aloft long enough to be tested, then tested it is. And not too long after that it will be used. The U2 spy plane was fairly cutting edge for its day; had it remained in its hangar through security concerns then it would not have been shot down over the USSR.

Intriguing. I share Mr Mellon's view that this cluster of sightings is one of the most convincing.
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Re: I won't pass on this one, even though...

Postby Linda Brown » Wed May 11, 2016 10:43 pm

re-rose rose wrote:Huffington post recently pubished an interview on the issue of a government sponsored UFO coverup, conducted with Christopher Mellon, a man in the know when it comes to classified and special access programs,

...His positions during the Clinton and Bush administrations involved high clearances; in fact, there are few people who have enjoyed such deep and wide-ranging access to compartmented programs in both the Defense Department (DoD) and the intelligence community. Chris is the recipient of numerous awards, including the National Reconnaissance Office Gold Medal and the Defense Intelligence Agency Director's Medal.

At DoD, Chris served on a small committee that provided oversight of all DoD special access programs, in order to eliminate potential waste and duplication. The oversight included visits to Area 51 and other sensitive facilities. He also spent over a decade on the Senate Intelligence Committee, involved in oversight of NRO, CIA, NSA and other intelligence organizations. He became the first Congressional official to review all of the NSA's compartmented programs.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/leslie-ke ... 462831807=


His take on the Belgium Triangle sightings:
Q: Some people believe the more recent sightings in cases such as those you mentioned may simply be US government tests of experimental aircraft. Is that possible?

A: I can understand why this may seem the most plausible explanation. But I can assure you, those objects did not belong to US Department of Defense....


He is also certain that there is no UFO coverup, which seems to be contrary to the claims of DeLonge's reputed DoD/NASA insiders.

just noting the other side of the story for the record....

rose


whenever someone with connections to the NRO SAYS " I can assure you that " those objects DO NOT BELONG TO THE DEPARTMENT OF DEFENSE" I immediately wonder who they DO BELONG TO...And notice that he has not excluded knowing of some other organization. Of course, nobody asked him THAT question.
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Re: I won't pass on this one, even though...

Postby G-Man » Wed May 11, 2016 11:05 pm

They are hardly going to admit to it. But he has definitely left himself some wiggle room there. :D

I certainly find the idea of a Deep Black US project to be more comforting than aliens or Russians or Chinese.
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Re: I won't pass on this one, even though...

Postby nate » Thu May 12, 2016 9:30 am

I find it interesting just how deliberately Mellon has left wide room for speculation, yes. He seems to be saying two things at the same time:

Officials like John Podesta and Secretary Clinton can easily serve for years in senior positions and be avid consumers of classified intelligence analysis but never obtain access to DoD’s compartmented programs, which mostly relate to new weapons systems. Information about such programs rarely leaks because it doesn’t circulate, unlike the constant stream of leaked information regarding classified intelligence activities.

I highly doubt DoD or any other government agency is concealing UFO information. I participated in a comprehensive review of DoD’s black programs and spent over a decade conducting oversight of the national foreign intelligence program, an almost totally separate world of secrets.

But I can assure you, those objects did not belong to US Department of Defense. Just before the 9/11 terrorist attacks, I was contacted by the DoD Office of Congressional Affairs. They were in a tizzy because Robert Byrd, the powerful Chairman of the Senate Appropriations Committee, was challenging them over reports appearing in magazines such as Aviation Week and Space Technology describing an alleged super-secret US aircraft program dubbed “Aurora.”

We quickly confirmed what we already knew - that while there are always things on the drawing board, there was nothing remotely resembling such aircraft being operated by the department. We had nothing with the capacity to hover and then silently accelerate at massive speeds.

I’d love to believe we have a crashed saucer somewhere, but I’ve never seen anything remotely supportive of such incredible claims. In my experience, on those rare occasions when UFO incidents involving the government occur, they are highly inconvenient, awkward and embarrassing for the afflicted government officials who want nothing more than to put the issue behind them as quickly as possible!

I find it hard to imagine something as explosive as recovered alien technology remaining under wraps for decades. So while I have no reason to believe there is any recovered alien technology, I will say this: If it were me, and I were trying to bury it deep, I’d take it outside government oversight entirely and place it in a compartment as a new entity within an existing defense company and manage it as what we call an “IRAD” or “Independent Research and Development Activity.”


On the one hand, what he says about the government reaction to UFOs matches what we know from public domain sources: the general response to UFOs has been embarrassment and a desire to make the problem go away by all means necessary. And he says he knows nothing about crashed saucers or about government UFOs operated by the DoD. This again matches the best and most well-supported evidence: that there's a 'UFO problem', a 'cringe factor' associated with it, various informal attempts to try to understand it from different places in the military-government systems that generally just go nowhere, and much general head-shaking and bewilderment all around.

On the other hand, he almost goes out of his way to agree that the DoD can and does hide a whole lot of things from Congress, and that private defense companies could hide anything from the DoD. But he doesn't seem to follow that thought up with the logical response that most people in the street would have: 'Wait, you don't know what's going on in the companies you fund? Although you were their oversight for a decade? Are you just really really bad at your job, or is something else going on? Can I talk to your manager, please? And I know it's not Cabinet-level elected officials - even a former First Lady, Secretary of State, and Presidential candidate because you've just said Hillary Clinton wouldn't have been cleared for the information you knew - let alone the information you knew you didn't know. Then who is?'

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Re: I won't pass on this one, even though...

Postby Linda Brown » Thu May 12, 2016 12:01 pm

I would think that if Mellon is making a statement...he has a reason....it just hasn't become obvious to the rest of us yet.
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Re: I won't pass on this one, even though...

Postby re-rose rose » Fri May 13, 2016 6:01 pm

G-Man, interesting that you mention this:

What is described is a plasma-state compound gyroscope, in effect. The strange behaviour of compound gyroscopes was one of my first areas of investigation.


On of the ongoing story lines in the Big Bang Theory has the guys deciding to develop a plasma state compound gyroscope. Last night's episode opens with a large one operating in the lab accompanied an incoming email request from the USAF for a meeting regarding the patent. It was a well done effect and very cool to watch.

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